Curse

Horogan Sivoris · May 21, 2005, 02:58 PM // 14:58

I'm posting this here, because I'm not actually bad mouthing a good game, i'm just bored of it already.

In this game, I understand that how good you are is based more on what skills you carry. Now, all the way through the run up to the game, it's been said it's based on "skill" giving me the impression that my experience with the game would alter on how good I am. I understand, that mentally, i have to decide which skills work best in what situations, and rebuild my charachter around the current situation, which doesn't work great in PvP because you can't change your char build as you go, so you leave the fight and change your build only to fight a differen't group or the same group with different skills etc. So in effect, it's just luck if you get it right.

As far as PvE goes, once I hit level 20, I saw no reason to carry on with PvE. Sure, I can go get some more skills from bosses or the odd quest, and I can carry on collecting skill points to buy skills with, but this leads to a dead end. Once I've done that, again I'm at a dead end.

Now, I'm no good at PvP, and maybe I will try to get better, but the whole "dependant on skill" thing, is false. It depends what skills my charachter has at the time. Not how good I am. Admitedly, a good team that works together, will of course, increase the chances of winning, dramatically.

But, the game play in the PvE, is very linear, sure I can explore area's, but it brings no reward. I get money, and the odd rare item. Whoopy. Because the rare items in this game are geared towards being balanced, they're never really "that" good anyway. I can go save gold to buy the best armour in the game, at 15k, but then what?

That's my big gripe about this otherwise good game, "But then what".

They will release more area's to explore, but then what?
They will give me more skills to find, but then what?
I already hit the level cap, and have hit my "but then what?" barrier. I feel no urge to finish the story line, because as far as I know, i get no reward for it. Don't quote me on that. But the journey there holds little better than a rare item here or there. Fight's now bore me. I fight and win, or I fight a struggling battle for no reward.

I feel this game would have been better if it were more like Tomb Raider, or Max Payne etc, in that I finish the story and that's it, I can put the game on the shelves, and forget it's there untill I get in to one of my nostaligia moods.

This has really dissapointed me, because I was very excited about this game, but it's short life I feel will not be saved by more area's to explore. Once you hit level 20, get the best armour and perfect your fighting, there's nothing else to do. I can't raise a skill here or there, I can't level up, I can't do squat. I appreciate the value of the game and the way it is designed to work, and that level 20 is there to keep the game equal and fair to casually gamers, but I'm not a casual gamer, I want more from my game.

Overall, It's a good game, but it's missing something.

Once I've finished it, then what?

Dreamsmith · May 21, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horogan Sivoris

In this game, I understand that how good you are is based more on what skills you carry.

That's indeed a large part of it, yes.

Quote:

Now, all the way through the run up to the game, it's been said it's based on "skill" giving me the impression that my experience with the game would alter on how good I am. I understand, that mentally, i have to decide which skills work best in what situations, and rebuild my charachter around the current situation, which doesn't work great in PvP because you can't change your char build as you go, so you leave the fight and change your build only to fight a differen't group or the same group with different skills etc. So in effect, it's just luck if you get it right.

Not at all, although if you still very new to the game, you probably haven't yet developed the skill necessary to cope with that.

Quote:

As far as PvE goes, once I hit level 20, I saw no reason to carry on with PvE. Sure, I can go get some more skills from bosses or the odd quest, and I can carry on collecting skill points to buy skills with, but this leads to a dead end. Once I've done that, again I'm at a dead end.

PvE ends when you've done everything there is to do in PvE. What level you are at the time or not is irrelevant. I was done with PvE in Diablo II long before I reached level 99. This game is the reverse, I reach level 20, but I'm still a long ways away from "finishing" the PvE content.

Quote:

Now, I'm no good at PvP, and maybe I will try to get better, but the whole "dependant on skill" thing, is false. It depends what skills my charachter has at the time. Not how good I am.

The fact that your success depends in a large part on what skills you have at the time is part of what makes this game very much a game of skill. Much like building decks for Magic: the Gathering, a lot of the skill involved in play comes in making the build. Unlike MtG, however, you don't have to deal with luck of the draw, so it's almost entirely about skill. How good you are determines both how well you are at creating the build, as well as how good you are at playing it.

Quote:

But, the game play in the PvE, is very linear, sure I can explore area's, but it brings no reward.

Sure it does. New map points, outposts, areas to explore, new things to see and do. Unlike a lot of boring RPGs where the only reason to run around is for "loot". *yawn*

Quote:

I get money, and the odd rare item. Whoopy. Because the rare items in this game are geared towards being balanced, they're never really "that" good anyway. I can go save gold to buy the best armour in the game, at 15k, but then what?

It sounds like you want the problem that ultimately destroyed gameplay in games like Diablo II. Oh yeah, endless Meph runs for loot, that's a lot of fun. Just try to start a game to get a group together to actually adventure, and what happens? Some idiot says, "Hey, I've got the waypoint, let's just go kill Andariel and get on to the parts of the game with serious loot!" Games like that are lame and boring, but hey, Diablo II Realms are still online if that's what floats your boat...

Quote:

That's my big gripe about this otherwise good game, "But then what".

And the answer is, more content. We've already seen some nice sneak previews of some new areas that are being opened up soon. More areas to explore, more things to do, without being forced into mindless loot runs to remain competitive.

Quote:

They will release more area's to explore, but then what?
They will give me more skills to find, but then what?
I already hit the level cap, and have hit my "but then what?" barrier. I feel no urge to finish the story line, because as far as I know, i get no reward for it. Don't quote me on that. But the journey there holds little better than a rare item here or there. Fight's now bore me. I fight and win, or I fight a struggling battle for no reward.

I feel this game would have been better if it were more like Tomb Raider, or Max Payne etc, in that I finish the story and that's it, I can put the game on the shelves, and forget it's there untill I get in to one of my nostaligia moods.

Um, you can, if that's what you want. But you just got through saying that's not what you want. You don't even want to finish the storyline, now you're saying you want to be like those games where the real point to continuing to adventure is to finish the storyline? In Tomb Raider, you hit your level cap the moment you started playing. Lara didn't level up (not in Tomb Raider anyway, nor any of the first few sequels). She didn't get very much in the way of new loot, either. What few weapon options she had, she had by the time she was halfway through the game.

This game is very much in that Tomb Raider tradition. If you have it in your mind that you should be leveling up or acquiring loot, you'll find this game isn't for you. Like Tomb Raider, you have to enjoy exploring for the sake of seeing new areas, and advancing the plotline.

Quote:

This has really dissapointed me, because I was very excited about this game, but it's short life I feel will not be saved by more area's to explore. Once you hit level 20, get the best armour and perfect your fighting, there's nothing else to do. I can't raise a skill here or there, I can't level up, I can't do squat. I appreciate the value of the game and the way it is designed to work, and that level 20 is there to keep the game equal and fair to casually gamers, but I'm not a casual gamer, I want more from my game.

Overall, It's a good game, but it's missing something.

Once I've finished it, then what?

Let me know when you've actually finished it. "I'm done leveling up and acquiring loot" doesn't cut it -- like your Tomb Raider example, the game ain't even close to half over when you've done that.

If you aren't interested in new areas for exploration sake, new missions simply to advance the plotline, etc., if you need to satisfy some obscure need to pointlessly increment your level number and acquiring more loot, this isn't the game for you. You either have to actually like games like Tomb Raider to enjoy the PvE content in this game -- games where the point is to DO something, not to GET something. If you don't enjoy that kind of game, and you don't enjoy PvP either, this really isn't your game.

Nothing wrong with that. I thought Mortal Kombat was a pointless game, that didn't stop it from being immensely popular. Not every game is meant for every game player. That's not a failing of any game, it's simply a result of the fact that not everyone enjoys the same things. GW is what it is because we don't NEED another traditional MMORPG -- we got plenty of those. We don't have another game like Guild Wars, that I'm aware of. You see GW compared to so many different kinds of games (WoW, StarCraft, Tomb Raider, Counter-Strike, etc.) because it really is different -- you have to make comparisons to games that are very different from it, because there's no other option, there aren't really any similar games to compare it to. Making it more like one of those other things (in your case, you're pretty much talking about making it more like a traditional MMORPG) would not benefit the game, it would destroy it. Those who prefer that sort of thing should go out and buy that sort of thing instead of or in addition to GW. GW isn't my only game, so I don't concern myself with trying to make it like something else. When I want to play something else, I do.

The game doesn't need saving. Some people may need to adjust their expectations, however. The developers go to great pains to discourage people from calling it an MMORPG, and to point out how it differs from one. If you actually enjoy MMORPG's, go play one! But don't suggest GW should be one -- they'd drive away many of their customers that way. I hate MMORPGs. I wouldn't be playing GW if it was one. Making it one wouldn't "save" GW, it would destroy it.

Horogan Sivoris · May 21, 2005, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Hey, and thanks for the decent reply, i was expecting to be flamed in to the dark depths of hell

I like tomb raider for the exploration and puzzle solving, thus far, non of this exists in guild wars. Sure, I can find a new area, but All I have to do to get there is fight the same old mobs and run. I don't have to climb, jump, swim or think about it. There's nothing to it except the odd difficult fight which once completed I Feel no reward for. I get to the new area, salvage my stuff, sell my junk and go onward to the next area.

I understand that the PvE isn't actually over once I hit level 20. I understand that there is still more storyline to follow, but all I'm saying is for me, it's not enough. I also understand that what sets this game apart from any other, is the fact it IS finally a different, and admitedly somewhat refreshing style of game. Like I say, I just found it not enough. Even the promise of new content seems dwindling to me, just because I feel (I don't "know") that it will just be more of the same. Go through area whilst killing monsters, repeat.

I understand what you say about diablo II, which is why I play it with my GF, instead of people online. (Also, because most of the people online hack their accounts etc)

I don't want to change guildwars, and *puts on flame proof suit* if I was going to change it, the only thing I would change is the illusive, no level cap increase with expansions. I think I'd rather have the PvE and the PvP completely seperated. PvE where I can go level up and stuff, and PvP where I am level 20. That would work very well for me indeed. I'd feel a little more "rewarded" for my PvE efforts.

But as I was going to say, I don't want to change it because it does indeed work the way it is, it is the point of the game, and If I want a different game then I should play a different game (this is why I have so many games... )

Just so you know, I'm not "new" to the game, though I'm not exactly old. I played it since the last beta weekend, then recently, i've not played it for about a week, due to boredom of the game. This, like I say, dissapoints me, I got more enjoyment out of PSO back on the dreamcast. How can this be? The point in that game IS to power level, and IS to find loot. That's the entire purpose of the game... yet I played it for months and months, probably a good year. After getting to level 100 twice... damn those hackers... ahem. Like I say, some how, for some strange reason, I got more enjoyment from one of the most linear games on the planet!

I think ultimatley, to at least keep my GW interest a little more, and to co-inside what SO many people seem to want, I'd like there to be two "types" of level (the Explorable Areas, not the char level) merged in to one. The currently existing straight forward run through and kill area's, Merged with a more explorable, do this, jump that, go here, press this, kinda place. So let's say those that want to run through and kill can, or If I really want to explore, and find new secrets, I can. That'd be nice. Anyway, It's quater to midnight, and I want to go play some RCII. Unfortunatly, my PC nor my GF's is good enough for three